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Gay Marriage and Michael Pearl
Aug. 5th, 2004 11:49 pmI hope this doesn't turn out to be deceptive advertising on my part (the title, I mean). I decided to do some searching (on Google, of course) to see what I could find on the subjects. Let me preface all I say with the comment that I don't really see how Mr. Pearl's words make sense. However, he does have a point in one thing: we're headed towards legalizing "marriage" (at least legally...the state does not have any say in the spiritual aspects of it) for any "couple" that desires to marry AND Christians are going to have to take a stand to make a difference. So I guess that's two things, but the first part is the situation and the second is that it necessitates some kind of response.
Anyway, I was a little curious about finding out the legal ramifications of not getting a marriage license. Obviously, you can go get your name changed without getting a marriage license, and it's a simple matter to put the father's name on the birth certificate of children, but getting your name changed and not getting the marriage license seems like kind of a silly choice to me. I don't want the state involved; I do want the state involved. I want to seem legally married, but I don't want to be legally married. Maybe that's not the way it is. And...what about birth certificates? I guess they'd have to have those to get out of the country.
Anyway, I found an article by Jim Lowder (here), who comes from exactly opposite the perspective that Michael Pearl has [if I were writing academically, I would just call him Pearl...hmm...]. If you agree with Lowder, let me know.;-) One quote: "A marriage license is, primarily, if not exclusively, a legal document. Somewhere along the way this document has taken on a spiritual and social significance. We have merged the legal status of marriage with the blessing of such unions by religious institutions." I agree with the first two sentences, although the meaning of the third is a little unclear to me. Ah, I see now...Lowder is assuming that marriage IS a legal relationship (primarily)...or so it seems.
Later, after Lowder explains that his legal union with his partner was separate from his spiritual union, he says, "Both the legal license and the spiritual blessing should be available to everyone." So I guess he is reiterating his view that marriage is a legal thing, since he views the spiritual aspect as just a "blessing." So...I'm not concluding much here, but I did think it was interesting to read a counterperspective, because I think it might give Michael Pearl's words a little more weight (not that he's completely right, but he may have some insight into what's happening over all, even if his approach to remedying the situation may not be completely effective).
In one of my comments on someone else's journal, I mentioned that the Pearls have talked about not getting social security numbers. Well, a little more help from Google, and marriage licenses in Tennessee can only be obtained with a social security number. "You must also provide your Social Security number. It is a non-negotiable requirement." If the Pearl kids don't have SSN's, marriage licenses would be impossible for them to obtain.
Here is a site that talks about common-law marriage. Basically, common-law marriage does not exist in the United States. However, there are places that "recognize it" to the point of requiring a legal divorce if the partners desire to separate later (well, I suppose that would only really be if they wanted to marry someone else--officially--later). And this is information that should be more reliable. The requirements are as follows:
"1. You must live together.
2. You must present yourselves to others as a married couple. Some ways of doing this are by using the same last name, referring to one another as husband or wife, and filing a joint tax return.
3. Although not defined, you have to be together for a significant period of time.
4. You must intend to be married."
And on to social security...according to Social Security On-Line, a .gov site, "Getting a Social Security number for your newborn is voluntary." I remember that Michael Pearl mentioned this in one of his newsletters, commenting that it was a tax that they opted out of. This site says that the those issuing driver's licenses do not have the authority to require social security numbers, although I'm not sure if that means that it would be possible to get one for someone who doesn't even possess an SSN. The site does say that "[s]ome States have enacted State laws requiring social security numbers as a condition for being issued a driver's license," so I guess it varies.
Okay, that's all I can find for now. It looks like these things are possible to do, but it seems like they would be a lot more trouble. Figuring out exactly how involved we want the government in our lives can be difficult. Last I knew, Jonathan Lindvall had chosen not to have his daughter get a driver's license because that might make it possible for her to be chosen for jury duty. And of course she wasn't registered to vote (that would be even more risky, I suppose). But Lindvall seems to have a somewhat uninvolved-with-government view on things, and I can kind of understand because I used to live in Hawaii (he lives in California), and getting involved in politics seemed like a losing battle.
Anyway...just the stuff I've found.=) I hope it is of interest to someone besides me.=D
Anyway, I was a little curious about finding out the legal ramifications of not getting a marriage license. Obviously, you can go get your name changed without getting a marriage license, and it's a simple matter to put the father's name on the birth certificate of children, but getting your name changed and not getting the marriage license seems like kind of a silly choice to me. I don't want the state involved; I do want the state involved. I want to seem legally married, but I don't want to be legally married. Maybe that's not the way it is. And...what about birth certificates? I guess they'd have to have those to get out of the country.
Anyway, I found an article by Jim Lowder (here), who comes from exactly opposite the perspective that Michael Pearl has [if I were writing academically, I would just call him Pearl...hmm...]. If you agree with Lowder, let me know.;-) One quote: "A marriage license is, primarily, if not exclusively, a legal document. Somewhere along the way this document has taken on a spiritual and social significance. We have merged the legal status of marriage with the blessing of such unions by religious institutions." I agree with the first two sentences, although the meaning of the third is a little unclear to me. Ah, I see now...Lowder is assuming that marriage IS a legal relationship (primarily)...or so it seems.
Later, after Lowder explains that his legal union with his partner was separate from his spiritual union, he says, "Both the legal license and the spiritual blessing should be available to everyone." So I guess he is reiterating his view that marriage is a legal thing, since he views the spiritual aspect as just a "blessing." So...I'm not concluding much here, but I did think it was interesting to read a counterperspective, because I think it might give Michael Pearl's words a little more weight (not that he's completely right, but he may have some insight into what's happening over all, even if his approach to remedying the situation may not be completely effective).
In one of my comments on someone else's journal, I mentioned that the Pearls have talked about not getting social security numbers. Well, a little more help from Google, and marriage licenses in Tennessee can only be obtained with a social security number. "You must also provide your Social Security number. It is a non-negotiable requirement." If the Pearl kids don't have SSN's, marriage licenses would be impossible for them to obtain.
Here is a site that talks about common-law marriage. Basically, common-law marriage does not exist in the United States. However, there are places that "recognize it" to the point of requiring a legal divorce if the partners desire to separate later (well, I suppose that would only really be if they wanted to marry someone else--officially--later). And this is information that should be more reliable. The requirements are as follows:
"1. You must live together.
2. You must present yourselves to others as a married couple. Some ways of doing this are by using the same last name, referring to one another as husband or wife, and filing a joint tax return.
3. Although not defined, you have to be together for a significant period of time.
4. You must intend to be married."
And on to social security...according to Social Security On-Line, a .gov site, "Getting a Social Security number for your newborn is voluntary." I remember that Michael Pearl mentioned this in one of his newsletters, commenting that it was a tax that they opted out of. This site says that the those issuing driver's licenses do not have the authority to require social security numbers, although I'm not sure if that means that it would be possible to get one for someone who doesn't even possess an SSN. The site does say that "[s]ome States have enacted State laws requiring social security numbers as a condition for being issued a driver's license," so I guess it varies.
Okay, that's all I can find for now. It looks like these things are possible to do, but it seems like they would be a lot more trouble. Figuring out exactly how involved we want the government in our lives can be difficult. Last I knew, Jonathan Lindvall had chosen not to have his daughter get a driver's license because that might make it possible for her to be chosen for jury duty. And of course she wasn't registered to vote (that would be even more risky, I suppose). But Lindvall seems to have a somewhat uninvolved-with-government view on things, and I can kind of understand because I used to live in Hawaii (he lives in California), and getting involved in politics seemed like a losing battle.
Anyway...just the stuff I've found.=) I hope it is of interest to someone besides me.=D
